m390 vs s110v

M390 for me really requires time to do things by hand using diamond hones. I have never been stymied when sharpening D2; to me it behave much like S30V and ATS-34. There absolutely needs to be a "Toughness" category in this rating system. My Native 5 in Maxamet is the only one of my 3 Native 5’s that I have had Rockwell tested and it came in at 67 HRC. Something like M390 doesn’t really have weaknesses, which to me is more important than something that has a couple strengths and a glaring weakness (like M4). Shop thousands of quality pocket knives from all the top knife brands including Benchmade, Spyderco, CRKT Cold Steel and more! I don’t know of any other powder metallurgy steels that even have as much as the 3% in the current version of S110V. Something like M390 … It works pretty well (albeit a bit slow) on S30V. Something like M390 doesn’t really have weaknesses, which to me is more important than something that has a couple strengths and a glaring weakness (like M4). is there is a heat treatable knife steel have a corrosion resistance equal to 316 or even 304 steels ? That method has its own issues such as many carbides clumping together, in general PM steels have a more uniform microstructure. Closed Length. It uses third generation powder metal technology and developed for knife blades requiring excellent corrosion resistance and very high hardness for excellent wear resistance. all powder metallurgy fabricated by hot isostatic pressure which is sooo expensive , adding a ball milling step just add a little to the cost . We're knife junkies, we're getting the best. This choice comes down to how important corrosion resistance is to the application. But S30 at least eventually gets sharp, S110 never does (for me). We are launching a slip joint folder next month and the blade would be made out of RWL34. However, S90V and the modified S110V (labeled 11V) have 11.5% Cr in solution while S110V (9Nb-3.5Nb) has 12.3% Cr in solution, which would provide better corrosion resistance. If you frequently use your knife to slice up cardboard, there may not be a better steel than CPM-S110V. United States. Your email address will not be published. You can see the difference in the micrographs below. However, I have some speculation about why the composition was changed. I use very high temperature of 1220°C (2228°F) to ensure all carbides are all dissolved . So why should Maxamet be considered more premium than M390? Note that the values below are normalized to the hardness of the tested toughness specimens. Haven t used the manix xl that I have with s90v, but my manix2 with s110v is very hard to sharpen compared to any other steel I have. 4.82" (122mm) Edge Length. Additionally, people often associate … I put the two together, because I see toughness as being resilient to wear and tear, more akin to edge retention, but not quite the same. However, more carbon means more carbides which reduces corrosion resistance and toughness, as described in this article. Maxamet Vs. M390. As a result, it is harder for manufacturers to work with. Toughness could absolutely be used to describe either the steel's ability to resist breaking or it's ability to resist constant wear. The M390 … If more corrosion resistance is required then S110V is the way to go. The blade of this remarkable knife is crafted from Böhler-Uddeholm M390 particle metallurgy stainless steel. Additionally, people often associate hardness with “chippiness”. So why should Maxamet be considered more premium than M390? For that reason we get the excellent Manix 2 with S110V… Special shout-out to u/Darkdistroi for the inspiration and keeping me occupied at work last night, it was slow. But not S110. AEB-L should be higher on this list...Certainly more so than VG10. If the carbides form in the liquid they are much larger then if they form during solidification of the powder. Also m390 is a true stainless and being in Florida, I'd recommend m390 based purely on the stainless aspect. Therefore, the approach with S110V was to have a combination of vanadium and niobium to improve corrosion resistance as much as possible while avoiding issues that come along with excess niobium. It could be that Crucible decided that the niobium was too close to the danger zone. S110V=26 Maxamet=24 M390=26. I haven’t performed a full range of heat treatment experiments on S110V, but comparisons with S90V show the two heat treating relatively similarly. UNIMOS CR, spol. This uses a standard rectangular knife ground to 0.015″ prior to putting a final edge of 15 dps with a 400 grit CBN matrix stone. If better toughness than S90V is desired then it would be best to move to lower edge retention steels like S35VN and Vanax. S110V has somewhat more carbide than S90V, making it even more impressive that the carbide size is finer. Chromium carbides are softer than vanadium carbides and therefore contribute less to wear resistance. CPM-S30V has become one of the most used premium steels on the market among knife manufacturers. Comparison Points Maxamet S110V; Composite Materials: 13.00% Tungsten 10.00% Cobalt 6.00% … I often reference this article, which has similar charts. The reduction in Mo from the original version (3.5%) to the final version (2.25%) likely means that these values are no longer accurate. This means for the consumer cutting with M390 … To put S110V into context, we should compare the composition of the steel with previous Crucible products to see how the evolution led to S110V. SPIRIT DEED Bohler M390 Steel Frame Lock EDC Folding Pocket Knife with Sheath for Men and Women Survival,4in Tanto Blade,Titanium Handle Japanese Style Knives for Camping and Hunting. Compare. but the hardness is limited to only ~ 35 HRc . I have a spreadsheet of all of the heat treatments I have done in the past along with ThermoCalc estimates of elements in solution. The EoS score that Matt Davidson gave D2 surprises me a bit. Build. Because Crucible already had steels S90V and S125V prior to S110V we have to discuss briefly the history of those steels. vasco MA which contains only 0.5% C reach a maximum of 62 HRc while the M2 can reach 65-67 HRc due to presence of about 10% volume of undissolved carbides . All of this in combination with the powder metallurgy technology gives S90V a relatively fine microstructure for good toughness along with high wear resistance from the high vanadium content. So there is a maximum amount of niobium that can be used before this happens, somewhere in the 3-4% range. Tip Carry Position . 440c is also a fairly similar steel composition wise so I don’t know why that’s ranked way below. As mentioned in the niobium section, there are limits to niobium alloying with typical powder metallurgy steel production. All things pocket knives. I won’t buy S110 anymore even though I admit it is good on paper. Ball milling is used to refine carbides when they are added directly to powder, such as adding tungsten carbide to steel powder prior to HIPing. : 602 415 932, Po -Pá 7 - 15.30 If the problem of adding Niobium is just clogging atomization why they didn’t just use larger nozzles ? This makes sense because of the lower carbide content of S90V, while the smaller carbides of S110V provides better toughness than S125V despite the similar carbide content. CPM S110V (Crucible): EoS = 1, ER = 10, Rc = 60 - 62; ... VS (very sharp) ES (extremely sharp) Here is a simple method I use to evaluate the sharpness of a knife and what I mean by these degrees of … Typically instead the steel designer increases the level of carbon to the point that the steel can be austenitized. Or very high toughness with AEB-L or 14C28N. Don't get me wrong, I love me some D2 and M4, but I'm not too big on rust. My guess is few heats of the original composition were ever produced, so experiments on that version are mostly academic at this point. Perhaps they identified high Mo as an issue as well, such as difficulty in annealing or excessive hardenability leading to cracking during cooling after forging. This is exactly why I don’t evaluate production knives to compare steels. Go buy one for yourself, and everyone you know, as a Christmas present. S110V=26 Maxamet=24 M390=26. I would like to note that purely for comparison purposes, stainless steels will be ranked better than their non-stainless counterparts simply because of corrosion resistance. Once again Maxamet fares well in edge retention, but lags in other measurements such as toughness, corrosion resistance, and difficulty in sharpening. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. This might be happening because the knives are from different manufacturers, using different heat treat and blade grinds? The powdered granules of Chromium and Vanadium in the steel are small, consistently sized, and finely dispersed in the steel's matrix (mix) making it exceptionally homogenous. Isn’t this video I do a toughness test on three different Spyderco’s with k390, cruwear, and S110V. However, a version of S125V with 2.7% Mo was in the S90V patent, which predated S30V, so it isn’t 100% clear in which direction inspiration occurred. M390. Not as sharp as steels like AUS8, but pretty sharp. So forming austenite at high temperature is the first required step for the final heat treatment of a knife. What austenitizing temperature did you use? Sharpening them all on diamond resin stones, and stropping with diamond paste on leather ends in a hair whittling edge on all 3 knives (including the S110V). What it is: M390 stainless steel, a powder-metallurgy material produced by Bohler-Uddeholm, is widely regarded as a "super steel" for its properties and performance. adding niobium carbide “if all regarding problems solved” to this steel can push hardness/edge retention to a very high numbers . Samior GP035-CFD Small Slim Folding Pocket Flipper EDC Knife, 3.5 inch M390 Black Stonewash Drop Point Blade, Carbon Fiber Handle Liner lock, Low Profile Gentleman's Penknife, Blue Pocket Clip, 1oz. Main Menu. In choosing the best pocket knife you should pay particular attention to the type of steel used in the blade. M398 Steel. Also, I left out a lot of low-end steels because they're boring, and it really just isn't worth it. Maxamet Vs. s110v. Different steels will transform to austenite at different temperatures. there is no doubt that if all of these 10% carbides are vanadium or niobium carbides instead of mostly M6C carbides which are much softer the hardness will be increased slightly , while the edge resistance will be increased greatly and still retaining the same toughness . Here's a little chart that I'm going to try and keep up with comparing knife steels. For the record, I think the work you’ve done is great, and I don’t mean to naysay your information. The changes were likely made to improve “manufacturability,” such as issues with gas atomization, forging, or annealing of the steel. A smaller amount of harder carbides (like vanadium carbide) gives a better combination of toughness and wear resistance. As I wrote in my M398 article, I am not a big fan of the steel because of its coarse structure and relatively low toughness. Like many other very high wear resistance stainless steels (S90V, M398) it was developed for plastic injection applications which necessitate a combination of high wear resistance and high corrosion resistance.
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